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The Hon Kevin Andrews MP
Minister for Defence
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14 April 2015
Topic: ADF troop deployment to Iraq
LEIGH SALES:
Australia has announced that an extra 330 troops will start deploying to Iraq from tomorrow.
That's on top of the 200 Special Forces soldiers and 400 personnel already helping the air mission against Islamic State.
The Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, says it's not mission creep but a continuation of the original campaign.
Joining me now from Canberra is the Defence Minister, Kevin Andrews.
Minister, is this additional deployment an admission that more effort is going to be required if IS is to be defeated?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, there's a major international coalition of countries involved in seeking to defeat ISIL or DAISH. And we've had some success over the past few months but there's still a lot of work to be done and this is in response to the Iraqi government asking us to help in terms of training their regular forces.
LEIGH SALES:
And what exactly does that training involve? Does it, for example, put the soldiers in any battlefield situations or are they confined to bases?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
The training will be at the Taji Base. This is a very large base. It measures about seven kilometres by six kilometres and our forces will be housed in a part of that. They'll be training inside that base and they'll be training members of the Iraqi regular forces.
The aim of this is to provide them with the skills and the training so that they can defend their country, that they can degrade and ultimately defeat DAISH.
LEIGH SALES:
And do they ever travel to battlefield locations with the people they're training?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
No, they stay - to use the expression - "inside the wire": that is, that they'll be at the Taji Base. They won't be going outside the Taji Base. All the training will take place there.
LEIGH SALES:
The Prime Minister has said it will be a two-year mission. What if IS isn't defeated by then?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, we've made a commitment to two years as have our neighbours, New Zealand. We'll review this formally after 12 months but there will be an ongoing review, obviously, by myself and the Chief of the Defence Force on a continuous basis over that period of time.
KEVIN ANDREWS:
As I said, there's been some improvement in the situation in Iraq over the last few months. For example, a large area of Baghdad has been reclaimed by the Iraqi forces. Just recently, the city of Tikrit was reclaimed by the Iraqi forces. So we are confident that there will be more gains over the next year to two and that's what we've made a commitment to.
LEIGH SALES:
One of the world's foremost military strategists, David Kilcullen, was on the program a few weeks ago and he agrees with you that there has been progress made in Iraq. But he said that, so far, the results in the mission overall are mixed and that nothing the coalition is doing is really undermining the global reach of IS or making it more difficult for IS to expand its reach across the Middle East. What do you say to that?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, their reach in Iraq has diminished. The Iraqi have taken back...
LEIGH SALES:
I just mentioned the broader region.
KEVIN ANDREWS:
..have taken back territory. We're in Iraq at the request, the invitation of the Iraqi government. Our mission there is quite clear: that is, it's to build the capacity of the Iraqi regular forces and that in itself is a significant contribution.
LEIGH SALES:
But Minister, you can't look at Iraq in isolation of what's going on in the broader Middle East if you're serious about the fight against IS?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, there are other countries involved elsewhere in the Middle East. Other countries are involved in Syria, for example. But our mission is a confined mission: it's to Iraq. It's a confined mission in terms of what we're actually doing there on the ground and confined in terms of the length of time that we will be there.
KEVIN ANDREWS:
So far, some 5,000 Iraqi forces have been trained though the various building capacity, partner capacity operations. There's some four of them underway in Iraq at the present time. And that has been quite a significant contribution to rebuilding the standing and the training and skills of the Iraqi regular forces.
LEIGH SALES:
Let's stick with Iraq, then. You mentioned before that Iraqi security forces have reclaimed Tikrit from IS. And now that that's happened, Coalition nations and military strategists all around the world are weighing in what direction the campaign should go next. The main options, as laid out by the US vice president, Joe Biden, are to go into western Iraq, into the Anbar Province, or to take Mosul in the north of the country.
What do you see as the relative challenges of each of those options?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, ultimately both have to be achieved. Anbar, out along the Euphrates River - the Anbar Province in the west - that requires the Iraqi forces to overcome ISIL there. But equally, moving north towards where the Kurds are in the north and around Mosul, ultimately has to be part of this achievement, this mission as well.
LEIGH SALES:
Sure: that's why people are considering both options. But could you please walk our viewers through the key considerations involved in attempting to take Mosul back from IS?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, Mosul is a much larger city than, say, Tikrit. It's therefore at a different point in the country where you've got more Sunni population rather than Shiah, further to the south. So all of these things have to be taken into consideration. We will continue to discuss our role which is, as I said, essentially to try and build the capacity of the Iraqi regular forces. And the Iraqi government will make decisions about where those forces are deployed in the future.
LEIGH SALES:
You touched on two key points there: one is the size of Mosul. The decision to take back Tikrit took weeks. What does that tell us about Mosul?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, Tikrit actually fell to the Iraqi forces much more quickly than had generally been expected, but nothing can be taken for granted. This is a fluid situation in Iraq and we have to take it step by step.
LEIGH SALES:
The other point that you mentioned is that there is deep distrust that the Sunni community in Mosul has for the mainly Shiah-led Iraqi security forces. How do you deal with that situation on the ground?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, about 20 per cent of the Iraqi forces are Sunni, rather than Shiah. Ultimately there has to be a reconciliation, if you like, an agreement in Iraq between Sunni and Shiah if there's going to be an ultimately peaceful outcome to this situation.
Now we are doing our best to encourage that: to encourage the Iraqi Government to move in that direction. The fact that, at Tikrit, the forces were under one command ultimately, as the chief of our Defence Force said this morning, is a step in the right direction.
LEIGH SALES:
At the start of the war on terror, back after 9/11, the military campaign was heavily focused on the leadership of Al Qaeda and it remained so for a long time. When it comes to IS, who is the top leader and what sort of focus is there on his capture?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, there's a cadre of leaders, if you like, in the ISIL forces. And we're not just dealing with one organisation. There's fluidity between organisations and individuals who are involved and that's why... and that's...
LEIGH SALES:
No, but there is a leader and a cabinet of IS; they run like a government?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
And, and that makes it more difficult in terms of the overall objective that we're seeking to achieve here. But we will continue along the lines that we are. We're in constant discussion...
LEIGH SALES:
So, so: sorry, just to be clear: who is the leader and what is the focus on his capture?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, I'm not going to go into operational matters, obviously, Leigh.
LEIGH SALES:
Well, can you name the leader of IS?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
I'm not going to go into operational matters but there are...
LEIGH SALES:
I don't think that's operational. I think it's a matter of public record?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Leigh, I'm trying to answer your question as best as I can and that is: that ultimately our aim here is to degrade and to defeat ISIL. Now, ISIL operates not just in Iraq but across Syria as well and there is fluidity between groups. There's not just one group involved and not one just group of individuals involved and so we have to counter that as best we can over the coming weeks and months.
LEIGH SALES:
Minister, you're responsible for putting Australian men and women in harm's way in the cause of this mission. I'm surprised that you can't tell me the name of Islamic State's leader. The US State Department has a $10 million bounty on his head?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, as I said, ISIL is a combination of groups, Leigh. There is not just one individual involved in this. There are Australians involved in the senior leadership of ISIL or DAISH, and there is a fluidity between groups that we've seen over the past few months in that area. It's not just one person involved: there's a series of people involved and we must ultimately destroy all of them if we're going to degrade their operations in that area.
LEIGH SALES:
The specific person to whom I have been referring is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
7.30 understands the Opposition was given just 15 minutes' notice of today's announcement regarding tomorrow's deployment, the start of deployment tomorrow to Iraq. Is that an appropriate way to conduct Australia's defence policy, given that it is almost entirely bipartisan usually?
KEVIN ANDREWS:
Well, when we actually decided to start the training before the deployment - this was a decision of the National Security Committee back in February - the Opposition was informed about that at the time. You may recall that there was a discussion on the floor of the Parliament at that particular time.
Today we made a decision in the Cabinet and once that decision was made, before any public announcement was made, then the Opposition was contacted. That's the usual course in relation to these matters and that's the course that we took today.
LEIGH SALES:
Minister Andrews, thank you very much for coming in tonight. We appreciate it.
KEVIN ANDREWS:
My pleasure.
END